A Few Words with Sage Francis

On his album Personal Journals, released in 2002 on the Anticon label, Sage Francis' style of rhyme and lyrical content intrigued conscious hip hoppers. It showed hope for a genre blanketed by greedy pockets.

Infused with political themes and self-realizations of a rebellious mind, the album became an immediate underground success. With the release of A Healthy Distrust, his debut on Epitaph Records comes a more refined Sage Francis.

Being the first hip hop act on a primarily punk label is probably a difficult task, unless you look past than the image. Old school punk rock acts, like Epitaph label-mates Bad Religion, challenged authority and exposed truths through their music in the same way that the legends of hip hop exposed true social conflicts in the inner cities. Thus, the connection between hip hop and punk rock...

IK: How did you get hooked up with Epitaph and how has the transition been?
SAGE: The President of Epitaph, Andy Kaulkin, called me after seeing me perform in LA and he asked if they could put Makeshift Patriot on their Punk-0-Rama and I quickly obliged. They told me that my style of music and the content reminded me a lot of what they loved so much about punk in the beginning. I had recently purchased a lot of Epitaph material and it was all a part of my consciousness. After talking to them for a while I decided that Epitaph is the company who will work my projects better than any other label, so when they asked if I was interested in being the first hip hop act signed to their label I got in touch with my lawyer and we made it all happen. It's been great.

IK: I think your sound has really matured on this record, as well as your lyrical content. What are your thoughts on "A Healthy Distrust?" Is there an overall message that you try to convey in your music?
SAGE: I don't know if there is a main message. I went into that project with a couple things in mind. I hope it prompts people to question their surroundings and the situations in their life. I want people to make changes for the better if they find it in their power. Don't believe in my particular truths...just put them into consideration. If they make sense to you then we may find ourselves wearing the same jersey color some day, who knows? Haha. Look at your world from different perspectives if you can, and do your best to be fair with the world.

IK: What are your musical influences? Who in the hip hop world influenced you to become an emcee?
SAGE: My favorite groups growing up were Run DMC, Public Enemy, Beastie Boys, De La Soul, Tribe Called Quest, KRS One, NWA, Eric B and Rakim, and so many others. I loved almost every single hip hop group that was producing material between 1986 and 1994; Way too many to name. I learned as much as I could about all of them, which was difficult in the pre-internet days while living in a town that had no love for hip hop whatsoever. I relied solely on college radio stations, hip hop magazines, and Yo! MTV Raps (huge in spreading relevant hip hop to non-urban areas of the country.) I would go over my grandpa's house to watch MTV Raps on Saturday nights because I didn't have cable. I still have the video tapes.

IK: In "Gunz Yo" you say the phrase "Dead like De La." What do you mean by that?
SAGE: In the line before that one I reference a song called "Millie Pulled a Pistol on Santa" by De La Soul, one of my favorite songs. The album that song is on is called De La Soul is Dead.

IK: What are your thoughts on the mainstream hip hop world? Are you as sick of it as everyone else?
SAGE: It's some of the most irrelevant music to ever be made, right under the Mickey Mouse Club Jams. Of course I am sick of it. Most of these music puppets are forcing a rich, old white man's agenda down everyone's throat without even realizing it. Keep the masses dumb and uninformed, as long as your audience stays predictable and well greased.

IK: What does hip hop mean to you? What does being an emcee mean to you? Do you feel that there's a difference between a rapper and an emcee?
SAGE: Hip hop doesn't have much of a concrete meaning these days. Not that it ever did, but it used to be a communal experience. If you were into hip hop 15 years ago it is safe to say that you knew all the main players of that era: Public Enemy, Run DMC, Rakim, BDP, De La Soul, Tribe Called Quest, etc. Everyone was basically on the same page and even if we didn't agree that Kool G Rap was dope, at least we all knew who he was. As strange as it is to say, that just isn't the case anymore. Now there are thousands of variations on what people consider hip hop to be and it has spread to all corners of the Earth, which has, ironically enough, resulted in it becoming one of the most segregated art forms. One person who loves hip hop in a certain area may not even know the groups who I believe to be the greatest artists of the genre, and vice versa. As far as the difference between an emcee and a rapper, that's an argument that was alive and well for me for a long time, but at this point I just don't care. If someone can rap well, they are a rapper. I am an emcee of all trades but what it boils down to is I rap. I am therefore a rapper. I refuse to get hung up on the semantics of all this shit. There is no honor in calling yourself anything. Just be the definition of the word that you think best suits you.

IK: Personally, I think that hip hop has the power to influence change in our world. Do you think that a politically and socially conscious emcee can have as much influence as P.Diddy or Jay-Z?
SAGE: People can empower themselves through the proper use of hip hop, but as a whole it is not defined enough as an entity, force, movement, or community to make any more change than it did in the early 90's. If a socially conscious emcee is able to play his/her cards right, then they might be able to cause a chain reaction from community to community. Maybe enough in fact to counter balance the ignorance that is perpetuated and encouraged through pop icons such as P.Diddy and Jay-Z.

IK: Being that there is a huge blur in the general public's distinction between rap and hip hop, how do you see hip hop portrayed in the media?
SAGE: They make a sick minstrel show out of it. I could elaborate on this, but I won't. Racism is alive and well and we have the media's abuse of hip hop to help blame for it.

IK: What do you see as the future of hip hop? What's in the future for Sage Francis?
SAGE: The future of hip hop is whatever we make it; All of us. It depends what material gets the most media attention and/or support from the people. Since hip hop is so wide spread I have to say that the future of hip hop is whatever the future of our world consciousness is, which isn't much of an answer. I am dedicated to my musical career at the moment, but beyond that I am part of a non-profit organization called KNOWMORE.org. It is a company that is dedicated to raising awareness about the companies that affect our lives. You vote every time you open your wallet. KNOWMORE.org encourages consumer awareness and it is basically a google for activists. I am also working on a DVD that I hope to release in 2005 and I have some books and movie stuff in the works. Not sure what items of business will come to fruition first, my main passion is always with music and that's where I dedicate a majority of my energy and time.

IK: How has the public response been for "A Healthy Distrust?" Do you think that people are trying to be more politically aware now that they see how crazy our current government is?
SAGE: Political consciousness has definitely been raised but not to a degree that should alarm the Masters of War. As the saying goes, if you aren't outraged then you aren't paying attention. Most people still aren't paying attention. Not until they are faced with the horrors we have ensued upon the world and eventually ourselves will the general public demand appropriate changes in our government and administration. And if they don't get it then we will be on the brink of revolution and/or Civil War. There's no other choice in those situations. The reaction to my album, which doesn't relate all that much to this question, has been incredible though. The feedback I've gotten is pretty much on par with what I believe was the intention of this album and the sound/feel I wanted to create. With Epitaph on my side, I see this album doing extremely well in the meat market.