Conversation with Philanthropist J. Michael Mahoney on Teen Bullying, Phoebe Prince and Suicide

I was recently introduced to retired journalist, author and philanthropist J. Michael Mahoney to discuss teen bullying, suicide and the creation of his memorial scholarship funds to honor the lives of fallen youth such as Phoebe Prince. Prince, who moved all the way to the United States from Ireland, was bullied unmercifully at her new school. Phoebe's young life was belittled and tormented on a regular basis within the halls of school and beyond. Unfortunately, Phoebe did not have the support she needed and chose to escape her tormentors through suicide.

Mr. Mahoney is honoring Phoebe's memory and the memory of other young lives that have ended early due to tragic circumstances by creating memorial scholarship funds in their honor. I am blessed to introduce you to Mike and his thoughts on teen bullying, gay bulling, suicide and what we all can do to help end such tragic stories.

Magena: I'd like to thank you for your time to discuss teen bullying and what the everyday person can do to address what I consider to be an epidemic of disrespect amongst peers.

Don't you think it is important to bring awareness to how we see each other?

JMM: Terribly important. Especially important for young people who are bullied or disrespected when they are going to school. The majority of young people's self esteem has not yet been solidified yet. It's always a little bit shaky so anything that undermines that is very bad.

Magena: Right, those are really important years where we are forming our identity and it carries over into adulthood. I still have fallout from the battlefields of school.

JMM: I think an awful lot of people do. Don't you?

Magena: Yes, I think more than we know about because people don't like to talk about it.

JMM: Exactly, they are embarrassed to talk about it I think.

Magena: Because it is not "cool."

JMM: You know I read something interesting over the last couple of days about bullying. It seems like people who are the worst offenders are the people at the very very top of the ladder in popularity. Which I found kind of weird. The people underneath weren't so bad but the very top are the people who are the hardest to reach because they will do anything they think will make them more popular.

Magena: Right because they think that being popular gives them a boosted ego or a better identity.

JMM: Right.

Magena: Then we lose the individual and their uniqueness. That's why I think our world is so dry. If you look at recording artists, for instance, everyone is packaged to be pretty and perfect. The packaging covers up the individual and chokes the creative life out of them.

JMM: Yes, it's kind of superficial really.

Magena: I'm very passionate about this and I know that you are too. I was also very touched when I read the story about Phoebe Prince.

JMM: I know. That was such a terrible story wasn't it?

Magena: I could relate to it because my father was in the Navy and we moved quite a bit from state to state.

JMM: So you had to readjust to new schools and everything.

Magena: Yes, I was the kid coming into the school in the middle of the year. This happened until the age of 10 because of our military roots. I was the girl who nobody knew--coming into a town where they had already established relationships. I often felt like an outsider and a reject at the many schools I attended.

JMM: That's really tough isn't it?

Magena: It is. Because I was so self-conscious I might have been putting out a scent for the sharks. Do you know what I mean?

JMM: I think everyone that age is kind of self-conscious. Don't you think?

Magena: Very, Very. But don't you think a bully actually picks up the scent of fear?

JMM: Oh yeah, definitely, because that's the name of the game for them. The cowards that they are... you know?

Magena: A coward, exactly. We have to become aware of how we perceive ourselves and realize our own inner power. I don't necessarily think everyone has to confront the bully face to face. It is how we see ourselves that really matters.

JMM: Right.

Magena - Those involved should all learn confidence to stand up for what is right for themselves and for their individuality and uniqueness.

What do you think can be done to prevent teen bullying and suicide, Mike?

JMM: The first thing is to have a kind of educational campaign throughout the schools. Teaching what a terrible thing this is. Anyone who engages in that is doing a terrible thing. Also to educate the administrators of the school, when we see things like this going on, we need to put a stop to it. If that means kicking that bully out of school for a while, you know, whatever it takes to stop it has to be done.

Magena: What inspired you to create the Phoebe Prince memorial scholarship endowment fund?

JMM: Well I think the thing that inspired me is that this young girl just emigrated from Ireland, with her mother and sister, to get established in this country. Then the very first thing that happens to her is she goes to school and gets into some romantic situations with some boy and then many of the girls in the school turn on her. Like some vicious animals who kind of drive her to her death. I thought it was a horrible story.

Magena: It is a horrible story. I read about how on the day she killed herself that she walked home from school and was taunted by one of the mean girls driving by and had a drink thrown at her.

JMM: Yeah, she threw an empty can at her and called her a slut and a whore and things like that.

Magena: At her age she just wasn't prepared to deal with that kind of rejection.

JMM: Exactly! It is terrible. You know the thing is about that case it had been happening and working at her for a long time in the school and nobody does anything about it.

Magena: Right! Didn't people see this?

JMM: Well they saw it but they didn't do anything about it. You know the administrators can't be that stupid. They must have known something like that was going on and then nobody came to her defense when these people were doing this. I mean some boy should have come to her defense anyway. Everybody was so scared of this group of girls that they didn't want to get involved in it.

Magena: It is terrible. You know, my parents didn't know what was going on with me.

JMM: You didn't tell them either did you?

Magena: No. I was too ashamed to tell them what was going on because I was being bullied for being bisexual. Actually they thought I was gay. They didn't understand bisexual back then. So I was labeled as gay. So I didn't tell my parents but that was because we didn't have an open communication line. I already knew my mom disapproved because she caught me. If we had an open communication line they could have helped me problem solve my situation. I didn't know that there were answers.

JMM: What do you mean she caught you?

Magena: Oh she caught me exploring with another little girl.

JMM: Ok. How old were you then?

Magena: I was probably five years old. I was very young.

JMM: All these kids are exploring each other at that age. You know? Both male and female.

Magena: You want to know that what is hidden between your legs is between their legs too.

JMM: Exactly. That is just natural.

Magena: Yeah. That is what it was. Because I thought I was deformed down there. Really and truly-I did.

JMM: That's true because I guess that is how kids find out before their parents tell them the facts of life.

Magena: I had discovered that there was pleasure down there and I wanted to know was that just me? Or was it the same for them too? So not only did I want to look. I wanted to touch. I wanted to know if what was happening to me was strange or not.

JMM: Yeah to find out what is going on.

Magena: Exactly, I wanted to know that I wasn't different and I wasn't strange.

JMM: Right.

Magena: That is all it was but it became something of a shame and something to hide.

JMM: In other words your parents reacted very poorly to that.

Magena: My mother today is a Catholic nun.

JMM: Oh my goodness--I guess that tells you something doesn't it? Tells you about where she was coming from at that point.

Magena: We are a colorful family but we love each other and we've all come through a lot.

JMM: Do you have brothers or sisters?

Magena: Two brothers and no sisters.

JMM: So that must have been terrible. Were other people there being bullied for being gay too?

Magena: I knew of some boys who were gay but no girls.

JMM: Were the boys being bullied then by their peers?

Magena: I don't recall seeing them bullied. Much of the bullying I received was done covertly. But I do remember people talking, whispering and giggling about them behind their backs.

JMM: Right, right.

Magena: We want to go along with the crowd and fit in and I've even been cowardly before I am sure. But my heart is not to hurt another person.

JMM: I don't think anybody should be really. Also I think, from the psychological point of view, people who bully people who they think are gay are doing so because they have a huge problem within themselves that they have never faced and they are projecting this out onto other people.

Magena: Exactly right.

JMM: Otherwise why would they care?

Magena: It is just not good to feel different. But the thing is that we are all more the same than different.

JMM: Of course we are.

Magena: We just don't have the freedom to talk about it without judgment. That is the thing.

JMM: That's the nicest thing about this day and age is that gayness is become so accepted that it is the best thing that has ever happened to us in the field of mental health because people who are gay who previously would have repressed it now don't have to do that anymore.

Magena: Yes, my son is having a very good experience. He came out when he was 15 years old. I've always known or at least suspected. You know, I had a hunch that he was. But he has found a lot of acceptance.

JMM: It is lucky he was born in this day and age or at least came out at this day and age.

Magena: He is also lucky we live in an area where people are generally friendly. I've lived in the Northeast before and Phoebe met more of the icy shoulder of the Northeast I think.

JMM: They can be pretty icy.

Magena: How can any ordinary person find ways to honor the lives of those who died or are still living in torment because of bullying?

JMM: That's a tough one. I think the best thing they can do is make sure that all of their friends and people they know in their family are not engaging in those kinds of acts. Younger or even older people. We should educate everybody really.

Magena: That is how we honor their lives is we treat each other with more respect as a result of what they went through. That is the hope that I have.

JMM: Emotional abuse is every bit as bad if not worse than physical abuse yet there are laws protecting us against physical abuse. We need laws against emotional and mental abuse.

Magena: Yes. Were you ever bullied as a child?

JMM: You know I was kind of lucky because I was fairly popular in school. But I had a few cases. You know-- where one or two people don't like you--you have to deal with that. Most people want to be popular among their peers. People who are bullied are certainly not too popular.

Magena: I was not popular. I was popular in the fact that people knew about me and had this opinion of me that was hurtful.

How many scholarship funds have you created now? The last I heard it was something like 50?

JMM: Actually, that is the exact number that it comes to.

Magena: That is a nice number. What was your hope in creating these funds?

JMM: My hope in creating these funds is to keep the memory of the people who died alive. Give their name eternal life. That their memory would go on for a long long time. Their lives would have had meaning because of them. Because they helped other young people whose lives were enriched because it paid for their education...their schooling. In other words, it is a gift that keeps on giving because it does keep on giving year after year.

Magena: That is wonderful.

Magena: Can you tell me about the Child Hurbinek Memorial Scholarship?

JMM: The child Hurbinek story is terrible. The scholarship was a dedication to him. He was a three year old child of Auschwitz when he died. No one knew his name and he was unable to speak more than a few wordless utterances. There is an article about it on my website.

All proceeds accruing to me from sales of my book, "Schizophrenia: The Bearded Lady Disease," are being donated to the Child Hurbinek Memorial Scholarship at Princeton University.

Excerpt from Mahoney's website at http://www.schizophrenia-thebeardedladydisease.com/images/Hurbinek2.pdf:

" He was paralysed from the waist down, with atrophied legs, thin as sticks; but his eyes, lost in his triangular and wasted face, flashed terribly alive, full of demand, assertion, of the will to break loose, to shatter the tomb of his dumbness." - 34 Primo Levi, "The Reawakening," pp. 25-26.

Magena: That is a very moving article. I will remember him going forward.

Why do you think gays and bisexuals are such a target for bullies?

JMM: Well I think because most bullies have bisexual problems themselves that they haven't faced. And so it stirs up all these things in themselves that scares them and makes them angry and so they lash out at the gays. They are terrified of it within themselves. It is easier to lash out at other people than to look within yourself.

Magena: I agree.

JMM: If a person is very happy in their own sexual identity-they are going to care less what anybody else is. I have a wonderful quote from a Bulgarian psycho-analyst, Julia Kristeva. Her quote sums up all mental illness basically. "Sexual identity guarantees our psychic unity." In other words if you are happy in your sexual identity, no matter what it is, you know, your psychic unity is going to be fine.

Magena: That's profound. So many people are fighting against their sexual identity. They are rejecting themselves.

JMM: That is what all mental illness is all about is people are basically rejecting their bisexuality. But that covers a whole lot of people.

Magena: It does.

The internet has really become a playground for the bully. Even after Phoebe Prince died, her tormentors hounded her into death.

Is there anything we can do as parents to help avoid that online game of dodge ball?

JMM: I think a lot of times parents don't know what is going on with the kids on the internet. The kids are so smart now that they just don't bother telling their parents what they are doing. So that is a very good question but a difficult question really.

Magena: Parents may not be as smart as their kids when it comes to modern communication.

JMM: They have total freedom, pretty much, to put what they want on facebook, myspace or whatever they are going to do. Maybe those companies themselves may have to start monitoring things like that.

Magena: That would be nice and a safer experience for kids online.

Do you think that bullies are often jealous of their victims?

JMM: They are threatened by them. It makes them think about their own conflicts that they don't want to think about.

Magena: What advice would you give to a person who bullies someone who is gay?

JMM: The advice I give to bullies is to slow down and stop doing this and take a good long look at yourself. Because here is what you are doing by bullying gay people--you're just telling to the world that you have a big conflict yourself with that regard that you are not facing.

So I think if everybody knew this about bullies, nobody would be a bully. They are showing everybody what is going on inside of them. It is important to educate on this--the bully really hates their own confusion and how they have repressed and denied and haven't faced it. So they just project it onto other people.

Magena: We talked a bit how parents need to monitor their kids and talk to them with open communication. What about teachers?

How can teachers help with preventing school bullying?

JMM: They are the ones right there involved in it daily. You know, every day. So they are the ones who really ought to step up. The school administrators and teachers, everybody really ought to step up if they see this happening and they should come down with an iron fist and say, "Hey, knock it off. That's not going to be going on here." You know, "You're out of here if this doesn't stop."

Magena: It should not be tolerated.

JMM: The parents should be brought in as well and given a lecture about what their child is doing. They should be told to have a talk with their child to tell them to "knock it off."

Magena: I really feel like the media contributes to a wrong self-image. In many homes, the children sit for hours in front of the television everyday having their minds filled with propaganda about what is acceptable and unacceptable in our society. There is a lot of conditioning and programming going on, brainwashing if you will. In this world the beautiful people get ahead and the weak die. The messages that are sent to us by the media to define beauty and weakness are based on a distorted scale.

JMM: I hardly watch T.V. at all nowadays. I hear they do have programs now where gay people are part of the group and everyone is just fine with it. That is a wonderful step in the right direction.

Magena: We are probably seeing some better choices than before. We prefer just to watch the nature and cooking shows.

What would you say to a gay person who wanted to end their life because they are in emotional pain and feeling rejected? What would you say to them?

JMM: Well I would say to them to hold on. The gay people who are trying to help young people who are experiencing bullying are teaching that it does get better.

Magena: It does get better.

JMM: The main thing I think is people who are so depressed that they are contemplating suicide-they should seek help immediately. Psychological help! Don't delay you know what I mean? They need to talk to somebody who can help. That is the most important thing.

Magena: So tell somebody and get some help. There are people who can help.

JMM: They need to tell their parents and teachers that they need help.

Magena: There should be no shame in asking for and getting help. I still see a therapist when life gets difficult and he tells me, "It is a wise person who seeks out counsel."

JMM: Oh yes, because you're facing the fact that you do have some problems. So you are doing something about it instead of denying everything.

Magena: What do you think can be done to increase open communication in the home? Kids are often afraid to tell their parents they are gay.

JMM: I think again it is a question of education. You know, educating the parents that this is a problem that a lot of kids have. Parents have to not be closed minded about these things and ask the kid to please come talk to them if they have any problems at all. Most good parents will do that for them. So to have that open communication is important.

Magena: Are there any coping skills that we could share with someone who is being tormented on a daily basis at school?

JMM: The main thing is that if the situation is bad enough they should remove themselves from whatever is going on. If it is so bad at one school they should move to another school and hope it gets better.

Magena: I went through four high schools because of the problems I was having. They sent me to two different private schools. I got kicked out of one. My grades weren't up to par because I had actually found popularity at that school. So I was more interested in my popularity than my studies.

JMM: Well that can happen. That is an important part of education too. For social development.

Magena: Is there anything else you would like to say?

JMM: Yes, the only thing I would like to say is that bullying is a terrible problem and it should not be tolerated by anybody. Not by parents, teachers and kids in the school or anybody. The people who are being bullied deserve all the support in the world. Whatever it takes to have people stop bullying should be done. I'm really hard fisted about that.

Magena: Thank you. I was thinking the other day about how sometimes I like to visit the graveyards near where I work. In Virginia there are a lot of old headstones that can barely be read. I think about the people who have gone on and they don't have a voice anymore. I think about what they might want to tell me. So when I die, I don't want my whole life reduced to an epitaph.

JMM: You want to leave something valuable for people.

Magena: Yes and I know that is your heart too and I feel blessed to know you. I'd like to thank you for coming alongside to help on the bullying front.

JMM: I'm delighted to come along to help out. At least you know how I feel about things.

Magena: Thank you, I've enjoyed getting to know you better.

I hope you have enjoyed my conversation with Mike. Mr. Mahoney is not only a generous man, who has presently created more scholarship funds to his Alma mater, Princeton University, than any other individual--his research on the connection between mental illness and gay sexual conflicts is a gift to many. He discusses his very compelling theory on the link between bisexual conflict and Schizophrenia in his book, "Schizophrenia: The Bearded Lady Disease." Please visit Mahoney's website for more information.

Bullying should not be tolerated and I thank J. Michael Mahoney for coming along to help educate on these issues. Like snowflakes, we are all unique by design.

Sources:
Princeton University: http://giving.princeton.edu/makeagift/donors/mahoney.xml
Mahoney's website: http://www.schizophrenia-thebeardedladydisease.com/