Gitmo

Some Fallacies Decried

Youranter
GITMO

Recently, I wrote an article quoting Mr. Peter Worthington, a respected journalist, who had visited Guantanamo Bay in Cuba to look at and report on conditions there. As expected, the left wing shows up saying that visitors don't or can't get the true picture. I made a comment at the end of the article saying I would write further on this story, and of course the left wing nuts weren't able to read that. I was left to wonder why we banned pit bulls and not stupidity, but then again, the pit bull ban came from the lefties. Let's get to the heart of the matter.

We'll dispense with the notion of talking to the detainees. Mr. W writes, "as a visitor there was no chance to talk to detainees - not because Admiral Harris was unwilling, but because Geneva Convention rules forbid it." So even if you're a Democrat, you wouldn't be able to get the news 'from the horses mouth'. (Or even the other end of the horse for that matter) Mr. W went to Gitmo "with a group of select individuals that included former Attorney General Ed Meese (under U.S. president Ronald Reagan) and that nice David Frum (a former speechwriter for President George W. Bush)." No doubt the Dems will cry that it seems to be a 'select' group of Republicans and Conservatives that are obviously biased. Maybe, but I think if they rounded up their own 'select' group of Democrats and Liberals, they'd find no fault in what Mr. W wrote
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"Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and various lawyers for detainees have publicized allegations of torture and inhumanity that U.S. government and authorities at Guantanamo routinely deny and dismiss as disinformation." This is typical for the left wing. To bring it home, the lefties want the criminal to have all the rights while ignoring the plight of the victim. Just remember, it was the terrorists who brought the fight to the USA, not the other way around. I see nothing wrong with the victim wanting justice meted out to those who wronged him. "I have no hesitation in affirming that nothing resembling torture or cruel or inhumane treatment is going on - unless it's actions by some of the detainees." writes Mr. W. "In fact, I'd argue the Americans are being ridiculously considerate, if not soft; their "humane" policy invites the contempt of their wards, more than it does appreciation or respect." Think about that. Someone who is willing to send their own son or daughter out as a suicide murderer to receive a few pieces of silver from the likes of Saddam, can rail against the 'inhumane' treatment afforded him in a Club Med like Guantanamo.

Just what are the 'inhumane' treatments these detainees are being subjected to? The food? Mr. W and his crew ate the same stuff the inmates did. (pasta, spicy chicken, green beans, salad, bread, cupcake, banana, chocolate bar, fruit juice) Maybe it's the facilities. Interrogation rooms with armchairs, TV, coffee maker, refrigerated juice, microwave. Maybe it boils down to medical attention. A 20-bed hospital, 120 medical staff, and an operating room. What about an exercise room? Nope, they have that too. While they have to live in individual cells, 6 foot by 8 foot, this is not out of line with our prison systems. In fact, how many prisoners detained today in Canada or the USA have their own individual cell? Only the worst offenders. The rest get to spend their time with Bubba, who hasn't had a woman for a while.

The Democrats and Liberals want Gitmo to fall under the auspices of the Geneva Convention. They don't seem to realize that the Geneva Convention applies to soldiers of a known enemy, not terrorists whose own countries disavow them. The known enemy will always declare war, hit you with what they have, and take their losses like a man. If you take my pawn as a POW, fair enough. The terrorists come from countries who support them, but then, if they're caught, have no knowledge of them. Hey, I didn't declare war on you. Now that you've got this nutbar behind bars, well, sorry, he's on his own. He's not one of us.

And yet Gitmo goes beyond Geneva Conventions. It has annual reviews of inmates to assess changes of attitude and treatment. There are no photographs, no recorders, no laptops. Just eyes and notes. How else to explain the average weight gain among the 432 detainees (from 24 countries) is 18.4 pounds? Who's ever heard of victims of prolonged "torture" ever gaining weight? Mr. W reports that one inmate came in at 215 pounds and now weighs close to 400. (I suppose this would be torture, making the poor man eat so many Big Mac's) Obesity may be a version of torture, but it ain't pulling out fingernails.

Mr. W says that prison guards have more to fear from inmates than vice-versa. The latest wrinkle is detainees spraying guards with a mixture of urine, feces, semen and vomit. I suppose the Dems want all their children to grow up to be prison guards. Mr. W asked what sort of punishment was meted out to inmates who break the rules or behaved badly, and the response was: "We may take away his pillow. Or deny "comforts" like a deck of cards, chess game, or pen and paper for letters. The most severe penalty is 30 days in isolation." He goes on to say "each inmate is given a Koran, a prayer hat and prayer mat. Prayers are five times a day, during which guards are quiet and respect their privacy. Throughout the camp - in cells, recreation areas (two hours a day exercise for inmates), in dining areas - are black arrows painted on floors, pointing towards Mecca." The Americans are hyper-sensitive about criticism, which may ultimately be their downfall. Mr. W writes that, "Rear Admiral Harry Harris, on a two-year stint as Guantanamo's Joint Task Force commander, categorically calls the facility "the most transparent detention facility in the world ... and very dangerous." He goes on to say, "Some could argue - and undoubtedly activists and lawyers will - that on a guided tour, a visitor is susceptible to spin and what those in charge tell him. True, up to a point, but it simply doesn't happen." I can agree with this. As I said before, all eyes are on the US to do the right thing and they would be in the crapper if any of the left wings charges were true.

"Admiral Harris and staff are careful never to refer to the facility as a prison or detainees as prisoners. "Prisons are for punishment," says Admiral Harris. "We don't punish. We 'detain' these folk so they can't return to the battlefield as enemy combatants." Rather telling I would say. These people are not your run of the mill soldiers. They are terrorists. They don't answer to one country, they don't wear uniforms, they don't even have the sanction of the country that produced them. And they can live and work right beside you and the first inkling you have that they are 'not all there' is when you read about their suicide-murder attempt at the local church in your morning paper.

"Good, or co-operative behaviour is rewarded by small comforts - a two-inch mattress instead of a carpet-thin one, library privileges (a translated version of Harry Potter is the most popular) or a deck of cards." The Democrats would have the visitors being shown detainees on a 6 inch Sealy-Posturpedic mattress with the detainees playing with a deck of cards showing naked women to make their claims of 'what I show you is the truth' ring true. It seems that Gitmo was opened to show the world how seriously the Americans undertake the treatment of people like this.

Muslim religious holidays are scrupulously observed. During Ramadan, meals are served after dark. Not only are Korans not pushed down toilets (as has been accused) but they aren't even touched by infidel hands. Oh God, please stop the torture now. Inmates are entitled to refuse interrogation. Oh no, please stop it. I can't take it anymore. No reprisals for shutting up, but rewards for co-operating, like ice cream, a fish sandwich from McDonald's, the only such outlet in Cuba. Please don't make me eat another one of those things. This is torture!

Leaders among detainees have convinced or coerced others into being more fearful of al- Qaida retribution than American displeasure. Why would that be? Because the cut and runners believe that these people are better off under someone like Saddam? Because the cut and runners don't want these people to taste true freedom? Why in the world would anyone offer themselves up to be a suicide-murderer and then be afraid of those who sanctioned it, rather than saying 'to hell with you, this freedom thing seems to make sense.' Interrogation sessions usually last two hours, with no all-night sessions. The Dems want you to believe otherwise. "Interrogators, through interpreters try to build rapport, while inmates use interrogation to try and wheedle information from their interrogators. It's a high-stakes, ongoing cat-and-mouse game." Mr. W says. Try to remember that all this is done 1) to bring some freedom to those oppressed, and 2) to keep our countries free and safe. Democrats and Liberals want to sit and talk with the terrorists. Their thinking seems to be that if it didn't work with Chamberlain and Hitler, let's try it again, maybe it'll work this time. Fat chance.

Torture? FBI, war crimes experts, medical, psychological, dental, and other staff are always on duty in Gitmo. "One inmate had a toothache at 3 a.m. and was in the dentist's chair by 8:30 a.m. Try that in Toronto or Boston." Or anywhere else in the free world, I'd venture. "It's difficult imagining anyone escaping, but detainees are adept at passing messages (more than 40,000 letters are mailed and received per year) and some 1,000 lawyers are involved with the 432 remaining inmates whose correspondence isn't monitored, so who knows what messages are disseminated? One thousand for 432? Yup, sounds like torture to me.

Bottom line: "Detainees are hardcore, so better to keep them isolated and together, rather than dispersed to contaminate others. As it is, of those released about 20 have returned to the battlefield, with some of them recaptured or killed."

Enough said.

Published by Youranter

I'm just a working stiff with opinions who would like to share them.  View profile

17 Comments

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  • Youranter11/24/2006

    Stand behind what? I made my position and beliefs known when I wrote the ARTICLES, or maybe you missed that little part about it being ARTICLES and decided to fixate on only one of them. BTW,in 2006 on June 19, the U.S. Supreme Court overrules the administrations claim that the Geneva Convention doesn't apply to al-Qaida or Taliban prisoners, and orders that terms of the convention apply to detainees. Am I standing far enough behind them for you yet or do you need more History and English lessons?

  • paul angelo11/24/2006

    No, you are saying that we should take what the gov and biased right wing journalists claims at face value, while ignoring tons of evidence to the contrary. Then, when you were called out on this ridiculous premise, you couldn't even stand behind it. You're are nothing more than a disingenuos hack writer, and by the way, to say that torture did not occur at Abu Ghraib is simply absurd.

  • Youranter11/24/2006

    He's got more than selective dyslexia, S L, but it's a great place to start, LOL.

  • S.L.Bradish11/23/2006

    Great article, Youranter! Unfortunately, Paul has selective dyslexia. Anything he tries to read that makes sense gets jumbled around in his tiny little brain.

  • Youranter11/22/2006

    Learn to read. You seem to be the only one in the world who can't get what I'm saying. The humiliation of prisoners at Abu Gharib was certainly not torture. Giving the prisoners at Gitmo Korans, prayer mats, arrows pointed on the floor to show them which way is East, feeding them McDonald's (well, okay, you got me on that one) or taking away their pillows if they misbehave is not torture. Get real.

  • paul angelo11/22/2006

    Well, I suggest that you learn how to write more effectively, because you certainly are denying that torture has and is occurring. Everything you have written about this is designed to give the impression that allegations of torture are completely made up, without the slightest bit of validity at all. You call Gitmo "club med", and that they go "beyond Geneva". In other articles you claim that the clear cases of torture, and even murder at Abu Ghraib were not torture, and you strain to even consider it as any kind of bad treatment at all. So, either stand behind your CLEAR position that you believe there is no torture, or learn how to write a bit more clearly.

  • Youranter11/20/2006

    Nobody is denying anything, you dimwit. It's just not as bad as you seem to make it. Read my other articles on the subject and then try to dispute me. Did you Dems ever take reading comprehension?

  • paul angelo11/20/2006

    Would you like to deny that these things may have occured as well:
    http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-jail20nov20,1,518872.story?coll=la-headlines-nation&ctrack=1&cset=true

  • Youranter11/18/2006

    Paul (or should I call you Captain America?) I trust Mr. W as a respected journalist. If he says the Supreme Court put Gitmo under the rules of the Geneva Convention, I'll take his word for it. He's gor credentials you only dream of. As for what happened to the prisoners before they were released, I'm sure they were dipped in boiling oil. Happy now?

  • Youranter11/18/2006

    Jim, thanks for a sane voice in the wilderness. You're right and I never considered the point you made. What I was trying to do is show the Dems not to believe all the horror stories they read about the prisoners at Gitmo. I'm working on Gitmo II and I'll adderss that fact. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

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