Highlights from John Lennon's Last Interview (Dec. 5, 1980)

Three days before he was murdered by John David Chapman on December 8th, 1980, John Lennon was interviewed by "Rolling Stone" contributing editor (from Europe) Jonathan Cott. Cott had conducted "Rolling Stone's" first interview with Lennon back in 1968, when the magazine was struggling, financially and he conducted the excerpted December 5, 1980 interview.

Three days after Cott spoke with Lennon about subjects ranging from child-rearing to death, and 3 weeks after the release of his album "Double Fantasy" (his first in 5 years), Lennon would be assassinated outside the Dakota Hotel in New York City. The fact that this last interview, entitled "The Lost Lennon Tapes" (Dec. 23, 2010 - January 6, 2011 issue of "Rolling Stone") would remain hidden for 30 years is as remarkable as some of the statements Lennon makes to Jonathan Cott, whom the ex-Beatle had first met on September 17, 1968.

The first interesting comment,( in the light of history), is John's question to Cott as the interview begins: "It's been fun seeing everyone we used to know and doing it all again. We've all survived." Lennon's reference to "doing it all again," as expressed on p. 92 of the "Rolling Stone" interview had to do with coming back from a 5-year period of musical inactivity. (1975-1980)

John took a 5-year hiatus from composing or performing to serve as house-husband to his son, Sean. The couple had much difficulty conceiving, which may have had to do with their use of drugs such as LSD and heroin, but, if this pregnancy were successful (Ono had miscarried at least 3 times previously and suffered stillbirths), www.wikipedia says that she extracted a promise from John that he would take primary responsibility for the daily duties associated with child-rearing. In all likelihood this also had to do with Lennon's new-found feminism and awareness of his previous bully-boy attitudes, both towards women, homosexuals and others. Lennon seemed to be trying to change himself and to make amends for some of the bad behavior of his youth.

In the interview, one of the most quoted lines (featured prominently in the article) has John telling Cott of critics, "They only like people when they're on the way up, and when they're up there, they've got nothing else to do but shit on them. I cannot be on the way up again. What they want is dead heroes, like Sid Vicious and James Dean. I'm not interested in being a dead f****** hero...So forget 'em, forget 'em."

LENNON'S ADVICE TO NEWCOMER BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN

Also prominent in the piece is Lennon's advice to then-up-and-coming rocker Bruce Springsteen: "And God help Bruce Springsteen when they decide he's no longer God. I haven't seen him, but I've heard such good things about him. Right now, his fans are happy. He's told them about being drunk and chasing girls and cars and everything, and that's about the level they enjoy. But when he gets down to facing his own success and growing older and having to produce it again and again, they'll turn on him, and I hope he survives it. All he has to do is look at me or at Mick (Jagger). So, it goes up and down, up and down--of course it does, but what are we, machines? What do they want from the guy? Do they want him to kill himself onstage? Do they want me and Yoko to f*** onstage or kill ourselves onstage?" (p. 93, "Rolling Stone" interview with Jonathan Cott in the Dec. 23 - Jan. 6, 2011 issue).

INTIMATIONS OF MORTALITY

Interestingly, later in the interview (p. 121), Lennon says to Cott: "And who's going to be the first to go---Lennon or 'Rolling Stone?' Who do you think's going to be around the longest? Life, Time, Newsweek, Playboy, Look, Rolling Stone? Let's face it: magazines come and go, record executives come and go, record companies come and go, film producers come and go. Artists come and go, too." This remark seems even more prescient with our current knowledge that in 3 days, Lennon would be dead, "Look" no longer exists, and "Newsweek" is all but dead as a print publication now. (Although "Playboy" founder Hugh Hefner, at 84, says he's marrying a Playmate 60 years his junior this year.)

Lennon preceded his remarks about the fleeting nature of magazines, film producers, record companies and artists with the statement: "But there's time, right? Plenty of time. Right now, here we are in the Record Plant, talking to Jonathan Cott again for 'Rolling Stone'...and it will be fun to be on the cover of 'Rolling Stone.' It will be fun, won't it, to start 1981 like 1968?"

LENNON'S INTENTIONS IN 1980

Lennon was setting the stage to emerge from house-husbandry with the new "Double Fantasy" album. 1975 to 1980 was a long hiatus, and even Lennon admitted that watching former bandmate Paul McCartney, (with whom there had always been an intense rivalry), start to turn out product that Lennon considered to be better than the "mediocre" stuff he felt he had been hearing, was driving him crazy. He wanted to be "out there" again, as an artist. And he wanted to be seen and heard and appreciated by the masses. Quote: "I'm not interested in small, elite groups following or kowtowing to me. I'm interested in communicating, whatever it is I want to say or produce in the maximum possible way, and rock & roll is it, as far as I'm concerned." Said Lennon, "Right now, the public is our only criterion: You can aim for a small public, a medium public, but for meself, I like a large public. And I made my decision in art school, if I'm going to be an artist of whatever description, I want the maximum exposure, not just paint-your-little-pictures-in-the-attic-and-don't-show-them-to-anybody." (p. 95 of Jonathan Cott "Rolling Stone" interview).

Lennon had realized, somewhat belatedly, after 5 years off, "You've got to keep it up. There's some sort of system where you get on the wheel and you've got to keep going around." (p. 93 of Jonathan Cott "Rolling Stone" interview).

LENNON'S INSECURITY

John reveals his insecurity as an artist with statements like these: "I always think there's nothing there, it's shit, it's no good, it's not coming out, this is garbage...and even if it does come out, I think, 'What the hell is it, anyway?" (p. 94 of Jonathan Cott "Rolling Stone" interview).

Cott followed up with the obvious question, "Most of them (writing the songs) were torture?" And Lennon replied, "It's just stupid. I just think, 'That was tough. Jesus, I was in a bad way then...except for the 10 or so songs the gods give you, and that comes out of nowhere." (p. 94 of Jonathan Cott "Rolling Stone" interview).

Lennon added that it had actually taken him 5 years for the songs on "Double Fantasy" to be conceived, calling the process, "Constipated for 5 years, and then diarrhea for 3 weeks." (p. 94 of Jonathan Cott "Rolling Stone" interview). He also said, at one point in the interview, "From the boyhood paintings and poetry to when I die---it's all part of one big production. And I don't have to announce that this album is part of a larger work. If it isn't obvious, then forget that." (p. 96 of Jonathan Cott "Rolling Stone" lost interview).

LIFE VIEWS

Lennon said, "But what Yoko's taught me is what the real success is---the success of my personality, the success of my relationship with her and the child (Sean), my relationship with the world...and to be happy when I wake up." He added, "What am I supposed to be? Some kind of martyr that's not supposed to be rich?"

Lennon said (p. 120), "I'm often afraid, but I'm not afraid to be afraid. Otherwise, it's all scary. But it's more painful to try not to be yourself. People spend a lot of time trying to be somebody else, and I think it leads to terrible diseases. Maybe you get cancer or something. A lot of tough guys die of cancer. Have you noticed? John Wayne. Steve McQueen. I think it has something to do with constantly living or getting trapped in an image or an illusion of themselves, suppressing some part of themselves, whether it's the feminine side or the fearful side....I look at early pictures of meself, and I was torn between being Marlon Brando and being the sensitive poet...the Oscar Wilde part of me with the velvet, feminine side. I was always torn between the 2, mainly opting for the macho side, because if you showed the other side, you were dead." (p. 120)

ILLUSION

Added Lennon, "In a way, no thing is real, if you break the word down. As the Hindus or Buddhists say, It's an illusion. It's 'Rashomon.' We all see it, but the agreed-upon illusion is what we live in. And the hardest thing is facing yourself...I used to think that the world was doing it to me and the world owed me something...And when you're a teeny-bopper, that's what you think. But I'm 40 now, and I don't think that any more." (p. 120).."I've found out for me personally that I am responsible for me, as well as for them. I am part of them. There's no separation: We're all one, so in that respect, I look at it all and think, 'Ah, I have to deal with me again in that way. What is real? What is the illusion I'm living or not living? and I have to deal with it every day." (p. 120)

Lennon ended the interview with Cott this way, "Sometimes you wonder. I mean really wonder. I know we make our own reality, and we always have a choice, but how much is preordained?"

Three days after giving Jonathan Cott this, his final, interview, John Lennon was shot to death in New York City at 10:50 p.m. on December 8, 1980. His body was cremated and his ashes were scattered in Central Park by his widow Yoko Ono in what is now known as "Strawberry Fields."