Interview: An Apostate's Look at the Umra

According to the writings of Sheila, as she will be known so her identity can be kept anonymous, her life has been a fascinating play of two parts, the first one of religious duty to Islam, followed by what she seems to consider a merry apostasy.

This has not been easy, however, as it has often put her at odds with family, friends, and not the least of which groups of Muslims who have not been afraid to send her anonymous threats for her frequent writings and criticism of Islam. She's been a very good friend of mine for over a year now, and she was willing to sit down and talk to me about her trip to Saudi Arabia on what is known as the Umra, what some consider "Hajj-lite".

After some finagling and a few date push backs, I finally managed to get her to sit down and conduct an interview over the phone.

Chadd: So, how old were you when you went on the...Umar you called it?

Sheila: Umra, u-m-r-a.

Chadd: OK, and how old were you when you went on this?

Sheila: Um, 7? Yeah, 7.

Chadd: Do you have any memories of your trip?

Sheila: I have a lot actually.

Chadd: Can you describe what this was like?

Sheila: Well we flew out there, to Jeddah, and then, you know you can't fly over Mecca, so we took a bus in. We performed the first little rituals which was going around the Kabah seven times, and then you run back and forth between the two hills several times, and then um you pray next to what is called Maqam-e-Ibrahim this is just a rock that has footprints in it, these are supposed to be Abraham's footprints. And then that's kind of it. Then the rest of the time we spent there just you know praying there at the holiest site, and then we took a bus out to Medina and then we spent some time there, yeah, that's pretty much it.

Chadd: Now, I understand that during the Hajj, you're also supposed to stand on Mt. Arafat for what Muslims to be kind of a vigil between you and God, did you have to do this during your pilgrimage?

Sheila: No but we did visit the place.

Chadd: Obviously you're an apostate, and you no longer ascribe to Islamic beliefs, but do you still have any positive feelings towards the entire experience?

Sheila: Well because they are beliefs I had so fervently from a very young age it was positive for me, seeing the historical sites that I'd read about in my books about Muhammad, you know, just in travel, I've always loved travel, so a big part of it was going to a new country and seeing how things were there and the different eating and the shopping and the different lifestyle and being on vacation, not having to go to school because kid's, that's what they want. So yeah it wasn't a bad experience.

Chadd: Now you described this as kind of the watered down version of the Hajj-

Sheila: It's not so much a watered down as much as a lesser version, it's not the once in a lifetime requirement, but it's a ritual you perform when you go there, just for a little extra brownie points with God.

Chadd: OK, is it fundamentally the same rituals, or do you do anything different in this pilgrimage compared to the Hajj?

Sheila: The Hajj has a lot more, it's longer, the ritual state of purity, wearing the special clothes, the state of Ihram, Umra lasts maybe 20 minutes if you prolong it, Hajj is like 5 days, you go different places, you have to be in a state of purity and Ihram for five whole days. Umra's just a little, mini, you just go around the Kaba and you go between the two hills in the same mosque so it's just a little way of paying your respect when you visit Mecca.

Chadd: Do you know anybody who is currently out on Hajj right now?

Sheila: Yeah two of my aunts actually and one of my dad's cousins I think.

Chadd: As an apostate do you have any particular feelings about that? About anything positive or negative or any comments about that?

Sheila: Well, I'm worried for their safety because stampedes can and do happen, and the Saudi government, because they want to make as much money as possible like any other government, allows too many people in every year and it's always increasing, I think this year there is a 30% increase in the amount of pilgrims. You know, even if you're a Muslim, it's only required once in your life, I don't understand why people keep going back year after year. If you have enough money, the Saudi government will grant you a visa, and then there are problems like overcrowding, they keep rebuilding the holy sites which to me makes absolutely no sense to accommodate more and more people, it kind of takes the historicity and the authenticity of the pilgrimage out of it I think. And that's kind of worrisome and kind of strange to me, especially for a religion that's so big on preserving the past and being like the Prophet. That's kind of what bugs me about it, the Saudi government keeps letting more and more people in, to the danger, especially of the poor pilgrims who are crowded together, especially from third world countries. I guess on a personal level only relatives that went away they make special goodbyes to everyone who asks and they have prayer requests - of course I didn't have any - and it's weird to think that they're praying for me to "turn back" over there. They think hopefully this is a special prayer that will make me good again.

Chadd: Now the way you described it sounds like the way many Christians are describing Christmas, would you say there's a kind of similarity between the consumerism around Christmas compared to-

Sheila: There's no consumerism on the Hajj, it's just the Saudi government trying to milk pilgrims for what they're worth. No one really makes money but the Saudis. It's actually kind of anti-consumerism because everyone wears the same clothing and all that, so really the only people like that are the Saudis.

Chadd: Naturally, I was simply wondering if you saw it as similar in that the original intent is missing for the sake of exploiting-

Sheila: I don't think anything is missing. I think 99% of pilgrims are there because they want to fulfill their requirements. The Saudis...nah. They're not so great.

Chadd: Do you recall any of the differences between touring say...different cities in the U.S. and what it was like instead going to Saudi Arabia? Can you recall any of the differences there or any key memories of specific instances?

Sheila: Well I remember thinking it weird that women couldn't drive, even as religious as I was as a child, I knew there's nothing the Prophet said like, "Thou shall not drive to women" or anything. Also the amount of beggars I saw, I've heard recently they cleaned it up, but back then what happens is that there's essentially this mob that kidnaps or even buys children from Bangladesh or poor areas of India or Pakistan and they mutilate these children, you know they break their elbows backward, these terrible, grotesque things, and then place them as beggars on the streets, and it kills you because you're not supposed to give to them because they essentially give it to their mob boss, it's not their fault, but you know, they get fed maybe a crust of bread and they have to give up all their money to the guy running the ring in their part of the city. But it's heart breaking to see and on the steps up to the plain of Arafat there was a kid on every end of every step, and as a kid it sort of disturbed me.

And I guess the attitudes of the men were very different out there than here, I mean if you had a hank of hair hanging out of your headgown, they looked at you like you were wearing a miniskirt, a bikini, and a thong is the type of flirtation you get. I was a child so I didn't experience that, but my mother did.

Chadd: If the Saudi government ever lessened up or the Arabian Peninsula were somehow deradicalized in a sense would you ever going back to Mecca and Medina just for the historicity of it?

Sheila: There are many other parts of the world I haven't seen yet, to which I'm more attracted to going, and it's not so much the radicalization that would keep me from going over there it's the attitudes that have nothing to do with religion even. I don't want to give them my money even. There are just many other places of the world I'd rather go see because I haven't seen them yet.

Chadd: Is there anything that you would offer to non-Muslims that might be interested in this specific event, there's obviously been a number of attempts to infiltrate Mecca despite it's harsh anti-Christian laws and the sense is there anything you could say that would either satiate their curiousity, or in a sense demystifiy the instance of Hajj?

Sheila: First of all, it's not anti-Christian, they hate all non-believers. They also hate fellow believers who aren't up to their standards. It's not specifically anti-Christian, that's kind of misleading, and in terms of anything, I guess interesting, the way they rolled it up and the way as a Muslim kid you get it built up it is kind of an interesting experience, it's very very cosmopolitan though, and very progressed. I mean, right across the street from the main mosque in Mecca is the KFC with Colonel Standards staring out at it. So you know it's capitalism and all that hasn't left, it's left its mark on Mecca. Most people just shrug their shoulders and go get a chicken sandwich, so it has its holy center, but for the rest of it its just like any other big city.

Chadd: I understand you've had some problems, your university where you go to and other Muslims who do not take too kindly on your agnostic routine or your even atheist approach to life, has any of that attitude towards you changed or gone down or has it largely remained neutral during the Hajj season?

Sheila: Well, just now with finals week and winter break it just happened around this time so I haven't had a chance to see anyone around this time, but in terms of my family, it's not said, but it's kind of implicit that we have this big religious hooha going around and you're not a part of it.

Chadd: Has that affected you in any way?

Sheila: It makes me shrug my shoulders, but you know they say we'll pray for you, but it's all kind of meaningless to me. It doesn't bother me because I understand where they're coming from, but it feels kind of odd to have it tuned to the Saudi station all day long to people going on Hajj, but I just sort of forgive them for that.

Chadd: Although you don't personally ascribe to the beliefs obviously, are you in any way grateful or are you flattered by the fact that people who do have these particular beliefs go out of their way in what they feel is an appeal for you, even though you don't personally believe in what they're doing, do you feel anything gratifying in this?

Sheila: It depends on their motivation. Sometimes it just kind of feels like a pride thing, we can't have a girl from our family acting in this way so we must pray and fix her so our standing can be reinstated. But from someone I know it's a genuine wish, they literally think I will be made to suffer for this and they don't want me to suffer, so yeah in a way it does kind of show you care about me, but...

Chadd: Are there any other comments you'd like to leave?

Sheila: I just think it's interesting that in the other Judeo-Christian religions there's not such a big, life changing ritual, because Muslims mark the Hajj as kind of a change or growth in their lives, and many of them come back with kind of a different perspective on life, and I just think it's kind of interesting that the other two religions don't have anything close to the ritual and the kind of global change that does go along with Hajj, because you know people from all over the world go there, don the same clothing, and worship together, and I just don't see the same thing happening with other religions.

Chadd: Do you see that as a weakness in the other two religions?

Sheila: Muslims do, they take it as kind of a sign the other religions just aren't serious enough in their affect in serious life, except maybe orthodox Judaism, but that Christianity is kind of like something you do on Sundays, and they keep Jesus in their hearts, but they don't really show people their faith in any substantial way, where Muslims do.

Chadd: Alrighty then, thank you very much for the interview.