Joel Osteen Exposed: Leading the Gospel-Free Church

WASHINGTON: The following is a partial transcript of the Dec. 23, 2007, edition of "FOX News Sunday With Chris Wallace":
(from http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,318054,00.html)

WALLACE: You preach in a former basketball arena that seats 16,000 people. You're the most popular preacher on T.V. Your books are best-sellers. What do you think it is about your message that people want to hear?

OSTEEN: I don't know if I know exactly, but I think the fact that it's positive, it's hopeful, and I talk about everyday life. On Sundays when I speak, I hopefully give somebody something that they can use the next day at work or at home. So I think that's part of it. And, too, I think, Chris, there's a lot of negative things trying to pull people down, and I think people respond when you tell them that hey, there are good things up ahead.

Of course people respond well when you promise them there are "good things up ahead." However, the Bible never promises there are good things ahead in this life, only that there is Heaven instead of Hell after we die. Does this mean that it's bad to have a nice, comfortable life? Of course not. All I'm saying is that God hasn't got that type of life in store for everyone like Joel says.

WALLACE: Now, you've written a new book, "Become a Better You," in which you say the central message is don't get stuck where you are, keep growing. How do you do that?

OSTEEN: Well, I think it's a decision you have to make because it is easy to get stuck. It's easy to get complacent and think, "Well, I've done pretty good in my career," or, "This is as good as my marriage is going to go." But I think you do it by making a decision to develop better habits, to have better relationships and just, you know, to keep the enthusiasm for life.

How about God? Isn't He important in our careers, marriages, and relationships?

WALLACE: And can you just will that?

OSTEEN: I don't think you can will it, but I think you can, with your will, you can make changes in your life and you can say, "I'm not going to," I'm going to be a better parent next year than I am right now," or, "I'm going to take an extra step in my career and not just be satisfied where I am." So I think it has a lot to do with our will, but also, you know, it takes a," it takes our own," you know, we have to work as well.

Jesus did not die so that we can earn promotions at work. Joel's focus is too much on worldly desires and God being a genie and making these dreams come true. Our lives become more beautiful when we die to our desires and dreams, and live for what God wants, not what we want.

WALLACE: Now, as with most successful people, you have critics who say that what you offer is gospel "lite," the prosperity gospel. They say you're more a motivational speaker than you are a pastor. How do you answer that?

OSTEEN: Well, a couple things. When I became a pastor eight years ago when my father died, I didn't change, this is who I've always been. I've always been, you know, my personality is motivating and encouraging. And so I'm just being who God made me to be.

Joel Osteen said he considers himself more of a, "life coach," than a pastor. And if God has called you to be a motivator, that's great, but don't TWIST and CONTORT the gospel to fit your philosophies. Galatians 1:6.

About it being "lite," I mean, every week we deal with people that are going through divorces and that are facing life-threatening illnesses, and I'm giving them hope. And to me, I don't think there's anything "lite" about that. I think sometimes the critics want me to beat people down, and that's not in me. I want to lift people up.

Compared to sin, divorces and illness are NOTHING. Osteen's philosophies aren't "lite" because he doesn't talk about worldly things, it's light because he doesn't talk about SIN. Huge difference. Galatians 1:10.

WALLACE: But your critics, again, say you don't talk much about sin. And a lot of great preachers, Billy Graham used to talk about sin.

OSTEEN: Sure.

WALLACE: You don't go deeply in your sermons into scripture. Again, why not?

OSTEEN: Yeah. Well, I think, I do talk about sin at the end of every one of our services back at home and at the end of the broadcast, but just, you know, as a pastor, I'm not trying to get everybody to, and that's not my main calling, like Billy Graham's.

He "talks" about sin? A more accurate word would be, "mentions." Every message does close with him SAYING the word sin, when he invites people to pray with him, but that's about it. Never does he spend time in his actual message talking about sin and how we are sinners. If people don't hear that part of the gospel, they're only getting half of the truth, which is no truth at all. This relates to Osteen purposeful decision to LEAVE OUT the cross or ANY religious symbols in his church's auditorium. Out of sight, out of mind, I guess.

OSTEEN: He was an evangelist. He went out and tried to win everybody to Christ. And I am ultimately trying to do that, but I'm trying to teach people how to live their everyday lives, and so I do focus on it, probably not as much as some people would like.

Osteen NEVER focuses on sin. Sorry, but simply saying the word once a sermon does not count.

WALLACE: One of the other things you say, and it has been noted that your book, "Become a Better You," that there's no mention of God. It doesn't mention that you're a pastor, although the book, the text itself is filled with references to God and scripture. And one time, I heard you say you want to get out beyond the church walls.

OSTEEN: Yes, exactly. That's part of our, our whole message is it's easy to just keep preaching to the church and people that already come.

Preaching to the church should never be easy. But then again, Osteen tells them what they want to hear, so I guess his preaching is easy. True, Biblical, preaching is NOT easy. Reminds me of when Osteen said being a Christian is easy and fun. Fun might be a stretch, but it is definitely not easy. No one from the Bible has ever said that following Christ is easy. Numerous disciples gave their LIVES to follow God's voice and Son. That is NOT an easy thing to do. Matthew 7:13.

But that's why we air on broadcast stations that are not necessarily Christian stations. It's because I want to try to reach people that, maybe they went to church 20 years ago, or maybe they just think, "You know what? I'm not a religion person. This doesn't have anything to do with me." I'm trying to make God more relevant in our society. And I think talking in everyday terms and making sure people can understand it, I think that's important.

Is he saying that if pastors use words like "sin," then people won't understand it because they're not "everyday" words? That is a gross underestimation of the gospel of Christ. People don't become Christians because of HOW we present the gospel, they become Christians because of what God does in THEIR hearts. We do nothing to save souls. So many people believe Joel Osteen MUST be a Christian because of all of the lives he has changed. God is not in the business of changing lives, He is more involved with SAVING SOULS. THAT is something Osteen nor any other person can do. Maybe Osteen did change your life, but God saved your soul.

WALLACE: Someone said, "You know, Joel Osteen has not had much formal training as a pastor." And your response was you said, "Neither did the 12 disciples of Jesus." Are you comfortable with that comparison?

OSTEEN: Well, I think I am. It's just I'm all for education, and I have, you know, friends that have been through seminary and gotten their doctorate and all. But it just so happened with me. I know this is right for me. And I think so. I mean, I know, you know, back in Bible days, there were these famous schools of the prophets, but some of the ones Jesus chose didn't come through that route �â'¬" and not to say that they weren't good, but I'm comfortable.

WALLACE: So are you saying that anyone can be a preacher?

OSTEEN: Well, really, I think you have to be, I think every person can, maybe not in front of a lot of people, but I believe we're supposed to, I like to call it a minister, but I believe, I teach our congregation every week, you know, you need to minister to the people around you, where you work at. You see somebody down, that's lonely, take them to lunch. Encourage them. To me, that's part of it. That's not, you know, public speaking like I am, but I think you have to be called, number one. You have to feel it in your heart, this is what you're supposed to do.

Again, no mention of God. Just a, "be good to people" kind of thinking. This isn't BAD, but it's not the focus of Christianity.

OSTEEN: And you know, ideally, I think it's good to be trained.

I agree that it is not necessary for a person to go to seminary before becoming a pastor. But I will say this: If Joel Osteen did go to seminary he would have heard MANY different things than what he teaches. Maybe his misinterpretations of the Bible would not be so profound. Maybe he would understand the importance of sin in this world. And don't tell me he understands the importance of sin. If he did, he would talk about it. And if you disagree that sin doesn't have to be talked about, then friend, you don't understand the importance of sin.

WALLACE: And what about Mitt Romney? And I've got to ask you the question, because it is a question whether it should be or not in this campaign, is a Mormon a true Christian?

OSTEEN: Well, in my mind they are. Mitt Romney has said that he believes in Christ as his savior, and that's what I believe, so, you know, I'm not the one to judge the little details of it. So I believe they are. And so, you know, Mitt Romney seems like a man of character and integrity to me, and I don't think he would, anything would stop me from voting for him if that's what I felt like.

WALLACE: So, for instance, when people start talking about Joseph Smith, the founder of the church, and the golden tablets in upstate New York, and God assumes the shape of a man, do you not get hung up in those theological issues?

OSTEEN: I probably don't get hung up in them because I haven't really studied them or thought about them. And you know, I just try to let God be the judge of that. I mean, I don't know.

First of all, if you haven't studied or thought about the controversial issues of Mormonism, DON'T SAY THINGS ABOUT IT. To say that a Mormon is a Christian is contradictory to EVERYTHING Jesus Christ stands for.

OSTEEN: I certainly can't say that I agree with everything that I've heard about it, but from what I've heard from Mitt, when he says that Christ is his savior, to me that's a common bond.

Didn't the Oklahoma City bomber also proclaim Christ as his savior? Is that a common bond as well? Osteen, don't judge someone because they say Christ is their savior.

WALLACE: Unlike a lot of preachers, you don't, and I can sense a little discomfort on your part, you don't get involved in politics. You don't talk a lot about abortion and gays and the so- called social issues. Why not?

OSTEEN: Well, it started back with my father. He never did. And I just don't feel comfortable as well. I don't feel like that's my main gifting. And I feel like when I stay focused on encouraging people, and giving them hope, and helping them live their everyday life, I think that's where I can have the most impact.

But...I thought he wanted to make God relevant in today's society. Gay and abortion issues are EXTREMELY relevant today, so why not teach what the Bible says about them? This only leaves the impression that he does not want to upset anyone. He is preaching to please men, not God.

OSTEEN: And I even heard Billy Graham say this, and I think it's true. Sometimes when you take strong stands, if you're not called to do it, you're dividing the audience you're trying to reach. I'm trying to throw a big net out there to say to anyone that God loves them and he's in control. And I think the moment �â'¬" even our church is so diverse. We have Republicans, Democrats, independents.

Well yeah, millions of people will follow you if you tell them what they want to hear and leave out the unpleasant stuff.

OSTEEN: And I think the moment I start saying, "Well, go this route," well, this group's going to just say, "I'm not going to listen to him because of the political stance."

Jesus taught that both men and women were to be punished when committing adultery. Before, only the women were brought to justice, and the men did whatever they want. It was a huge shock to hear Jesus say this because the male-dominated society was so used to sleeping around without the fear of any consequences. People didn't want to hear what Jesus had to say (in many instances!) but it didn't stop him from saying it.

WALLACE: Occasionally, some well-known televangelist, you know, and it's true of every profession, but obviously it's bigger news when it becomes a televangelist, gets caught up in scandal, and there's all this talk about hypocrisy, being corrupted by fame and fortune. Why do you think that happens?

OSTEEN: Well, I think it can happen in any profession. I think sometimes, you know, you just lose your focus, and I think that's easy to do when you start getting, you know, more fame, more money, more power. But I don't think, you know, I don't think it has to happen and, you know, like you said, there are millions of great ministers. And I think in every field some people kind of get a little off balance.

This is probably the only statement I mostly agree with.

WALLACE: And you know, obviously, you are making an enormous amount of money with the television show, with these best-selling books. How do you personally, how does Joel Osteen keep himself safe, guard against being corrupted by all the temptations that must surround you?

OSTEEN: Yeah. I think there's a couple things. One, I like to start my day off every morning, take the first half hour and just search my own heart, see if I'm on the right course, try to be honest with myself �â'¬" am I doing this for the right reasons?

That sounds more like Buddhism than Christianity! Taking time to meditate and focus on himself! If you're going to wake up meditating, focus on God, study the Word. FInd passages to memorize and think about whenever you are tempted by your pride! That's pretty much the idea of a Christian quiet time anyways.

OSTEEN: Two, I have good family around me that I think can speak into my life. And the other thing is, you know, I'm, I realize that as quick as you go up, you can really come down that quick. And we've seen it happen with others. So I just try to not really think about it. I don't feel any different than I did eight years ago.

So you keep yourself safe from temptations because of what YOU have yourself THINK in the morning and what YOUR family does around you? Where does God fit in, or is He not important when helping you defeat your temptations? (Self-help!)

WALLACE: Christmas will be here in two days. With all the parties, all the commercialism, all of the gifts, it's kind of easy to forget what this holiday is really all about.

OSTEEN: It really is, and it's gotten it seems to get, you know, worse and worse, you know, with all the consumerism. But you know what? We just remind people to let's celebrate, you know, the birth of Christ. And you know, I really don't like to get caught up in all the gifts. And I know that gifts are fun and we, of course, buy them for our family and things. But to me, just not taking people for granted, not just at Christmas, but all through the year. And I encourage people in a lot of my messages that you've got to make the most of every day. And you know, to me, these are the good old days. Sometimes we look back and 10 years from now. We think, "Boy, those were great old days." Well, you know, we're living in the good old days. So I think we should enjoy our families and everyone that we love right now, you know, each day.

That's nice, but again, shouldn't God be mentioned somewhere if he's talking about how to live each day?

WALLACE: And beyond that, is there a message you would like to give our viewers before they watch your show, as they're watching our show, a message this Christmas?

OSTEEN: Oh, my message is that, you know, that God is a good God, and that he's on our side, and that he has great things in store and, you know, I believe that as we receive the forgiveness that Christ came and was born and died to give us, then we can live a great life.

Not the Christian gospel. Christ didn't die so we could have a great worldly life, He did so we could have an eternal life, one that continues after death. I'm not saying we should all be poor and miserable. God has definitely called some to be rich so that they may give. But if you truly believe Jesus died so you can live comfortably, then you've missed the point of the gospel. For some, God has planned that we will live in poverty, handicapped, or deprived of promotions in our jobs. We need to accept that and Osteen needs to stop telling everyone God has a wonderful, prosperous life for EVERYONE.

WALLACE: Joel Osteen, thank you so much for coming and visiting with us. And merry Christmas, sir.

OSTEEN: Same to you. Merry Christmas.