Music Research - A Conversation with Allison Cole

The following is the transcription of a four-hour conversation with Allison Cole that took place in a bar on Atwells Avenue in Providence, Rhode Island. Allison is a 22 year old comic book artist who lives here in Providence with her cat and boyfriend, Eric. She's previously been known as DJ Gold and in February her first book, Summer of Love, was published.

Frequently we were distracted by the music playing at the bar and so I've included some interruptions to the conversation within brackets in order to clarify some outbursts. The entire conversation was filled with laughter but in the transcript I've limited the inclusion of such laughter to particular moments.

Here are some excerpts.…

Megan: Ok, let's start with your top five recording artists in no particular order:

Allison: Oh, no - wait I need to think about this. Ok, The Ramones is one, oh Jesus, this is hard I mean I have to say the Beatles but everyone says the Beatles - I think about this all the time but they change so frequently - Ok. Of all time…I'm having a hard time. I can think of top five per genre…

Per genre, then, let's try that.

So, like, early punk rock - in the seventies: I could do definitely the Ramones, Gang of Four, Wire, Suicide - and that only leaves room for one more - wait. Stop. I need my records in front of me - it's too serious of a question.

We can move on, it's ok.

Ok.

How did you start dj-ing?

Well - my friend Garth got me into it but initially I made mix tapes.

How old were you when you first made a tape?

When I was a small child I had a Fisher Price radio with a microphone and I used to record things off of my alarm clock radio with the microphone [laughter] and the recorder so that was the first real kind of mix tape that I made was off my friend's cd's that I was too cheap to buy. I used to take a boom box around with me with headphones until my parents finally bought me a walkman.

What did you put the first tapes?

Definitely anything off of Jammin' 94.5: Early nineties hip hop, En vogue - we were into bad stuff - Arrested Development… My other favorite cassette tapes were Michael Jackson - Thriller, Wham - Make it Big. I had a Culture Club tape, the Gloria Estefan - Miami Sound Machine, Bobby Brown, Marky Mark…

Wait - "bad" stuff - what do you mean by "bad" stuff?

Radio-friendly pop music that is actually good but is considered bad by snobby people. I love bad music but it's definitely more formulaic than creative music.

Can you talk a little more about being a music snob?

I think being a music snob is liking a lot of music and knowing a lot of stuff about a lot of different kinds of music. Even though I like a lot of stereotypically bad music I think that people who just stick to a certain genre of music - like Indie rock - are missing out on a lot of stuff. My snobbery comes from listening for a certain guitar sound. I listen to music for specific things in specific songs. I made a mix cd once called "Nice Music"- not of sad songs - but they're a little more melancholy and they're heartfelt songs. They don't have that shrill.

So when you go to make a mix cd how do you start - what is it to you?

I go for a mood. That's where I differ with my friend, Shay. She'll mix things up - time periods, new music/old music - she listens for different things than I do. I like fitting a mood for a time. I could make a party cd - and the music can be all over the place. I like to make Cock Rock cd's or time period cd's. I'm up to 4 Cock Rock mixes now.

Do you think mix cd's are as good as mix tapes?

Definitely not. In tapes you can fast forward but it takes effort. Order is more important - you've got more time. Cd's are all the same - seventy minutes - just over an hour. You can't fit anything in just an hour. You don't have the advantage of an A and B side - you can't change the mood and mix cd's are more disposable. If a tape breaks I tape it back together - I go all out to fix a cassette tape. If I mess up a cd I know that I can just burn another one. I save all the tapes that people give me - unless they're from ex-boyfriends - then I throw them out. On a cd the information disappears - they're not permanent.

Digital's permanent but I freak out when I listen to music on my computer. I just skip around all over the place. I never listen to a full song. That's the advantage to listening to a tape or a record - it's like an event when you sit down and listen to it.

Did you find that your music taste was similar to that of other kids your age?

Mostly my one friend - I had a friend called eve - we listened to the same music - we both listened to the radio all the time that's pretty much the only way we found music. ..Jammin' 94.5. There was a point where it bridged though because I got really into the Beatles at one point and that changed everything.

My dad got me into the Beatles. He had all the records. And it just seemed like it was something I was supposed to do. And I saw something on TV - some sort of anniversary documentary on TV - and that's what made me interested in the records and my dad had all the records. And my dad played me all the records so I'd known all the songs without knowing that I knew them because he listened to them all the time.

How much do you think television influenced your music taste, early on?

I watched MTV like crazy.

[Bangles start playing in the background - we sing a little]

In this video they're in a car…

How much do music videos influence what you're listening to?

Promo clips that they used to make - like for the Beatles - those are awesome. I love watching them. I saw the Franz Ferdinand video and they definitely went along with some kind of ad concept - from a marketing point of view - but early MTV and promo clips. Bands just had a blast with it - they had no clue.

How old were you when you started watching MTV?

I don't even know - I wasn't allowed - I was really young but MTV got bad at a very specific year I remember like 1996 I stopped watching MTV. [laughter] It was when hip-hop and rap moved in and the grunge thing was over and dead and I just wasn't interested in the popular music anymore.

You listened to grunge music?

Yes. [more laughter]

Me too… Can you name a handful of grunge bands that you liked?

Well, of course I liked Nirvana and there were a bunch of one hit wonders around that time - Collective Soul, Mudhoney - but they weren't really a one hit wonder they didn't really have any hits, oh, and the Pixies and others. Nirvana was very open with their influences so that kind of lead me to become more interested in more music. And that's where everything started. But it wasn't Nirvana. It was a lot of things. I also got into Led Zeppelin.

It's so clear how it happened. I had a friend, Kim. Kim was my best friend - I met her in gym class - and neither of us were participating. She was faking that she got her appendix out and I was faking that I'd hurt my ankle. We were both sitting there and we didn't know each other at all but we were both stuck - and so we started talking. Both our parents were divorced and she asked me what kind of music I liked and we both really liked [quietly] Aerosmith. [laughter] So. Aerosmith was the basis of our relationship and we bought every album and got sooo into Aerosmith. One day my dad got fed up with me and said that Aerosmith just ripped off Led Zeppelin. And I was like, "Who's he?" I was in sixth grade. He played me Stairway to Heaven and said - See, Dream On just rips off Stairway to Heaven. And I was like, Yeah…, but I didn't want to admit it then. But then I really liked Led Zeppelin.

So grunge music and Aerosmith kind of lead you to explore older music?

Yeah - even with Aerosmith I liked older Aerosmith. Everything that I started to get into - like the Beatles and the Rolling Stones everything was older- When I'd read interviews with that band, like Nirvana or David Bowie, they'd site specific influences. Then I got really into Britpop music at the same time. My dad's from England. And I got really into being from England. I was 14 when we started going over there a lot and when I was older I paid more attention to the culture there. That was at the height of the Blur/Oasis fight and I got so into it. And I loved both bands so much. The guy from Blur was dating the lead singer of Elastica -

I loved Elastica -

[laughter] They were great. Blur always talked about the Kinks and Elastica cited the Fall and Wire - and I was like - who the hell are these bands - but I bought the worst Wire album they ever put out - it was this cheap used cd. They put it out in the eighties - it's got a black and white cover and the title's unpronounceable. And it's soo bad. Then I thought they sucked. But when Napster came out that helped things a lot. I was already into that kind of music - Bowie, classic standard stuff, when I was 16 I listened to pretty normal stuff. Then with Napster everything exploded. I found the right Wire songs and so much other stuff.

Did the research that you did on Napster lead you to buy the actual records?

Definitely, 100% - I never understood why people thought - I mean I have a retarded number of mp3's that are illegal now. I wanted the records but I wanted to test it out before I bought it. I'd bought the wrong Wire album and thought that they were bad for years until I found the right song. And now they're one of my favorite bands ever.

Do you think that you wanted records because your dad had records or was there something else that made you want records initially?

I definitely think it was my dad. Because my grandfather, my dad's father, owned a record store and my dad just held on to his own records and listened to them - he had a tape recorder and he listened to all of this outdated - he didn't listen to cd's for a long time.

Do you think that there's an aural [stupid hand motion around my ear] difference between records and say, cd's? Or do you think it's more about owning the object?

Records have proven to stand time - the grooves in the records don't fade away like cd's do. They can't get scratched like cd's do and they're just more precious. They last longer because of that also. Especially with the advent of cd-r's - they're more disposable and you can just throw them out - it's harder to throw out a 12" record. You can't just throw it in the back seat of your car.

Do you think that people are returning to collecting records now that cd's are becoming so disposable?

I think record collecting is associated with a certain kind of person. They're not as easy to find - you have to seek them out. You have to have the right equipment for it. I don't know that people are so much going back to record collecting but I know a lot of DJ's are using cd's - I don't know - I shun DJ's who use cd's. I don't think that they're real DJ's. Pressing buttons…I don't know that's not real dj-ing. It can be accomplished but you have the crutch of all this electronic equipment. With records you have to time it right… you have to know where the needle is - you're listening through the headphones - it's physical. With cd's it's all electronic and you just pick a track number. A lot of people - like certain clubs don't even have turn tables anymore. It's definitely a genre thing - it's different - not unequal - it's just a different experience all together.

I know you're an artist and that you like constructivist art - how do you think that relates to the kind of music that you like? What makes a good record cover?

Good record covers - They're like band names. When a band names themselves - the name becomes part of the band. A good record cover takes you aback. I don't know - there's a lot of stuff that goes into it. Usually it's the band's taste that goes into it.

Do you think the band's taste influences whether or not you like their music?

Yea - overall. I bought the Arab on Radar albums for the Mat Brinkman covers initially. He's an artist and I knew who he was. I used to go to Fort Thunder this venue that they blew up and replaced with a Shaw's.

Do you think that living in Providence has influenced your musical taste?

A little bit - not too much. It was really fun to be here a couple years ago when everything was going on and it was weird and creative. I guess it's still like that but now it's more personal and secret. There were musicians and artists creating a lot of work [a couple years ago] and they provided spaces for people to live and make music. There was a lot of energy.

I hear that you're dating a musician - did you ever expect to be dating a musician?

It was my childhood fantasy. But beyond that - I don't really think of Eric [ex- Arab on Radar/now the Chinese Stars] as that at all. He's just Eric and it's basically just funny how things like that happen. He was kind of upset that I wasn't impressed by it - but I just wasn't.

Were you ever musical as a child - did you ever try to play any instruments?

I tried to play guitar for two years but they taught me wrong - I'm left handed and they tried to teach me right handed. I played clarinet but during the recitals I would fake my way through and just move my fingers. I wasn't musically gifted - they say it goes hand in hand with math. (laughter) I'm really bad at math. But I took piano lessons.

Do you think that being a non-musician affects the way you listen to music and what do you listen for when you hear a song?

There's a certain guitar sound that I like.

Do you ever think about the lyrics?

Not really. Yeah - usually I pay attention to them if they're not unreasonable - it's not something I don't think about too much. If they're atrocious then I'm away of it but - you know Morrissey's a little much sometimes but I still like Morrissey. It's more of a mood creator.

Do you feel like you're not in touch with contemporary music?

I worked at a music store and couldn't give advice to anybody. I'm only interested in contemporary music in a funny way - like I make fun of it. It's hilarious. Like, Justin Timberlake. It's all a perfect formula and the lyrics are suggestive but they're not saying anything. …Kylie Minogue. I don't know - it's all the same.

If a band sells out or gets really popular does that change the way you think about them?

No - I think it only changes if they change their music to fit what's hip. But you never really know because they might really like what they're doing. The band might genuinely like what's hip now. Like the Rapture - I really liked the Rapture when they put out that EP. Then they put out that full length record where they directly rip off the singing style and everything of so many bands and they don't even acknowledge it. It's just blatant and it really makes me angry. A lot of people weren't like me when they were 14 and they just think it's really new and unique and it's not. The stuff that came before was far better.

So what do you think about originality?

I think it's very hard right now - very hard.

I think the music that we're hearing in Providence sounds a little stale right now because we've been hearing it for a while but if you go out of Providence it sounds really new. How much do you think your environment is influencing your opinion of modern music?

You could compare it to fashion almost - people here were wearing things that are just now hitting stores as a marketing trend - like leg warmers and brightly colored clothing. It's like an echo effect and now it's hit the mainstream.

What do you think of the hipster movement.

[laughter]

Oh my god…well it's hard to say. When my comic book came out I got shunned as being one of those snobby people who listens to records and blah blah blah.

Is that sort of a compliment?

In a weird way but in my book I avoided using specific records and tried to make it as approachable as possible and didn't want people to think that I was one way or the other so that they could relate to it. But I guess people saw through it. Again! Records insinuate a certain kind of person - dj-ing - people could tell because of my lifestyle what kind of music I listened to and pigeonholed me as a certain kind of person. There are good hipsters and bad hipsters but I think that's true of any generation. There are people who are just along for the fashion and then there are people who are actually doing things and that's just how it is.

About your record collection: if you could part with one of these three things what would it be: your record collection, your cat [she gasps], or your boyfriend?

Oh my god - that's awful. Wait - mine and Eric's collection or just mine?

I guess if you keep your boyfriend you can keep his collection -

Ok. I'd get rid of my record collection then because we've got the same records.

How much did those collections influenced your relationship in the beginning?

It influenced it a lot. I remember the first time he came over to my house I was listening to Gang of Four and was surprised that I liked them. He looked through my collection before we went out to see a movie and I knew that we were on the same page because he was like - I have that - I have that - oh my god I really like that. And it was really good.

How much do you think musical taste influences how you view a person?

I was amazed when this girl that I work with had never heard of the Kinks - it was awful but I felt better after a couple days. I shouldn't judge people like that. I'm kind of quick to judge but I take it back all the time. But it definitely says something about a person and I tend to gravitate toward people who are like me but I'm also open to people who want to hear other music. My best friend, Kelly, listens to hard core and our taste doesn't really overlap at all. I just can't get into hard core.

Do you think her taste is reflected in her personality at all?

100% - in the way she dresses and everything. It is and isn't because within hard core there a lot of different kinds of people. Kelly's a great person and that's why I we're friends but I would not be friends with someone just because they liked hard core music. People in that scene are known for being a little ignorant.

What other genres would you connect with ignorance?

Hick music - country. Country music is so ignorant. Old country I feel has a right to be ignorant but these days everybody knows better. After working at the record store and hearing Tim McGraw - those kids who listen to that stuff. There was a Taliban song - and don't even get me started - there was a single that everybody was looking for a song called Red Neck Woman…Red Neck Woman! I was like - what the fuck? - how stupid are you?

So if you met someone who liked country music do you think you would find it hard to enjoy their company? Do you know anyone who likes country music?

I do not know anyone who likes country music. But I can respect some older music for their progress - Patsy Cline, Johnny Cash.

What do you think of Johnny Cash's cover of the Nine Inch Nails song?

Johnny Cash on that album is hilarious. I think he did it tongue in cheek - but serious and paying tribute to new stuff. Every song he did took on a new meaning - he did a Depeche Mode song and just made them all his own.

What do you think of bands doing covers?

The Raincoats did a cover of the Kinks' Lola - a song about a drag queen - and most people didn't get that in the seventies. And a bunch of punk girls singing it is really funny and they do a great job and - what are other covers that I like - I like a bunch of covers - It all just depends. The Ramones covered a Phil Specter song - Needles and Pins. I think that if the band makes the cover their own and if they're a good band then covers are good.

If you were on an island would you pick a person or all the music in the world?

If I could have the library of congress record collection I'd pick that over a person.

Do you have any siblings?

A younger brother.

Did his musical taste influence yours at all?

No - and I tried so hard to influence his but he just went along with his friends, followed the herd, and likes rap music. For a while he was into grunge - we were into grunge at the same time. We watched MTV for the same amount of time. He's three years younger than me and was of the right age to watch MTV when the music switched to rap. He's of a different generation than me even though he's only three years younger than me.

There's a very big gap in the nineties because there was the internet that set us apart because I didn't use email until my freshman year in college - I love the internet and download music but I don't use it like my brother did. He used it for communication - email and instant messenger - I remember a school librarian telling us about Amazon.com for references for a bibliography. I was a junior in high school and had no idea what this thing was. It just blows my mind how dependent on that stuff I am now but my brother always was. He grew up with it in a way that I didn't so his music taste reflects that. He has an mp3 player that's the size of a toothpick.

Do you think the internet is changing the way kids listen to music now?

Yeah - I think that downloading music is crippling the music industry in a way - cd's are worth nothing now and it's because of stuff like that. It's all about how dedicated you are to it.

What do you see happening to the music industry?

It's kind of freaky I don't know I mean definitely a percentage of sales are coming in from the internet - I buy music from the Apple Store. 99 cents to download a song. You can show support for the bands you like and I think that people - even if they like independent music - are going to buy cd's to support a band. You can even get a better deal on a whole cd - they'll be $9.99. It's better quality and kids can carry them around on their iPods and mp3 players.

The music industry has got to figure things out because for a while cd prices were $17 or $18 and then they realized that they weren't making any money off of it and people as a result were downloading music instead of buying cd's. Now they've lowered the prices and they're back to what they were before but record stores are suffering and they're having to sell things other than music like DVD's or posters or other gimmicks or they're just going out of business. Record store owners though - they don't really think about anything - they have a whole different set of priorities. The guys that close up shop are just going to close up anyway - they just need to get out of there.

How do you find new music these days?

Current music I find out about through Eric - because he's in the industry, you could say - he always pays attention to what's around. So I guess I listen to a lot more new music than I ever have from being around him. Older music - I tend to reach a point where I'm really into a certain type of music - I was really into the New Wave and the eighties and early punk - I tried to find the most obscure bands. Now I'm moving into "bad" music kind of (laughter) I've just gotten to a point of no return.

M: What's the most obscure band that you're proudest of finding?

I mark everything off my friend, Shay, so nothing really seems obscure because she's usually heard of them first. I got a lot of music from her that I'd never heard - like the Screamers. If I play a song there's usually one person that will know what you're talking about. Shay gave me a lot. We liked similar stuff - basic stuff - like Wire and the Ramones and then she gave me a lot and I hope that I gave her a lot. And Eric gave me a lot off stuff that I didn't know- he's a lot older though.

Are these people more valuable to you?

Not more valuable but they connect more on a certain level. Me and shay can listen to records for hours and that's the best thing in the world. And Eric, too, he'll play me a song and freak out and we'll smoke pot and listen to the song.

Do you think that as a musician he listens to music differently than you do?

Definitely - he listens to it a lot more. He'll be like - do you hear that snare drum or air drum to a song. I pay a lot more attention to hearing, actually hearing how it's recorded and I can hear things a lot better than I did before. And I have a greater appreciation for Kiss now than I did before. I love Kiss. I always wanted to like Kiss but I never knew the right songs. It's the same thing - I downloaded a Kiss song and thought "this is weird" - but Eric played Kiss for me - he played the right songs and I appreciated them a lot more.

Do you think that his influence has changed the way that you listen to other stuff that you liked before you met him?

Definitely - Eric mentioned to me - this is a bad thing actually - we were listening to Wire, Pink Flag driving to a movie once and he was like - "listen to that snare drum! It's sooo loud." And ever since then when I listen to that album I think about that. If you think about it - it's really loud. And I'd never heard that before. Or echo on vocals and stuff like that. Like Hall and Oats - I tried to figure out what it was about their vocals that made them so distinct - and it's an echo. I only know that because of Eric. Now I can figure things out - hear it on a different level.

What do you think of electronic music?

I don't like it.

John Cage?

I don't like the weird shit - I just can't get into it. I don't even like Brian Eno's weird shit - I just really like pop music. The weirdest I get is Pink Floyd - well. Like Syd Barret's Pink Floyd.

So do you think there's a lifestyle that goes along with genres of music?

Yea - but there are people who take that lifestyle to the extreme. You need to keep an open mind - and here I am calling people pussies, faggots, and hippies. But, really, I have an open mind.

You're a music snob, it's ok.

[laughter]

Genres are tough because they're defined by a music store. Like at Newbury they have Rock/Pop, Hip-Hop/Rap, country, jazz, soundtracks - they all have their own sections and that's really how it breaks down. When people come into a record store they'll go to the R&B section and won't find what they're looking for then they'll ask if we have a certain record and we'll tell them that we don't have it but actually it'll be mixed in with in Rock/Pop. There are just so many things - like radio station format - that's pretty much what makes genre. And then there's style and fashion - and you can define genre within that.

Can you clarify, then, what you think the use is of genre then? Or if there are multiple uses?

It's radio format - a corporate thing - way to sell things in a record store - categorizing in a broad sense. When you get down to categorizing in a specific sense it's more about putting buzzwords in a magazine. It might clarify what the music sounds like - like Electro pop - that was a big buzz word a couple years ago. Now it's like Electro punk…Electro trash - those kinds of things are going to die. People are going to forget what they meant.

Can you talk about various genres within Rock music?

There's like metal and pop rock and punk, pop punk, classic rock…

Can you define classic rock?

I define it as the sixties and seventies…I don't know what I would classify the fifties as… I don't really like the fifties. I like the movies from the fifties - but not the music. The funniest thing I ever heard was - my friend, we'll call her "K," she was dating this rockabilly guy - he looked like he was wearing a Halloween costume every day of his life - it was ridiculous. I went to this bar with her to meet this guy and I couldn't even talk to her - he was so ridiculous.

Eric was talking to a friend that he hadn't seen in a while and didn't realize that our friend was over talking to those rockabilly guys and the guy says: "Fuck, man, I hate those guys. It's like Led Zeppelin never happened." (laughter) It was the funniest thing I never heard - it's so true.

Do you think Led Zeppelin changed music?

It was way before Led Zeppelin but, yeah. Watching the DVD that came out - that's rock and roll right there.

Why don't we talk about class a little bit - what class would you say you're part of?

Middle class.

Do you think it's reflected in your music taste?

Yeah. I mean - people who are lower class don't have the time or the benefits that I've had. I've had the internet, computers - people can come out of less and still find stuff. But hipsters, if I'm going to classify myself as that - though I don't want to, they're mostly middle class kids who are cultured and like marginal things - I had the privilege of going to college.

What do you think of upper classes?

I don't know. I don't really know anyone who is.

Do you think their taste is more similar to the middle or lower class?

Probably the lower class - middle class kids are average kids and make up a large percentage of the population. I imagine rich kids slumming it in bars -

So they would be more likely to listen to what the lower class is listening to or what you're listening to?

It's hard to say - I think it's almost worthless to try to say. Especially after working in a record store - in a mall in an urban environment - We saw the same kids - if there's something in the top twenty - that's classless - anyone will buy something in the top twenty. I think middle class kids are more alienated in their schools and they might think that they're different - like the hippies - there's more room to grow in a middle class.

Do you think your dad's music taste is changing as he gets older?

Well, my dad is one of those people who only downloads and buys music off the internet now.

My mom, too.

But it's all the old music that he listened to when he was younger. To my knowledge he doesn't listen to anything new.

Do you find - do you think that older people listen to different stuff -what do you think that older people listen to?

Well, my mom - her musical taste influenced me. She was into Motown and the Rolling Stones and used to listen to it when I was younger. But my parents definitely had different taste - she likes Hall and Oats a lot. (laughter)

S o you're a product of your parents' taste?

Definitely. My mom continuously listens to Motown. Like Boys to Men - that record that they put out in the nineties was put out on Motown and she bought it and really liked it and still listens to it. My mom is from the lower working class. Like - dirt poor - lived in a house with all of her siblings. My grandmother was a cafeteria worker but they weren't out on the streets. My mom was lower middle class.

Pop music is primarily what we've been talking about but what about things like opera and Broadway show tunes?

No interest whatsoever. My parents never had an interest in that so maybe that had something to do with it but man - opera - that's tough. Broadway - musicals - they just make me cringe - when I see people bursting out in song. It's so unnatural - it's so out of this world…

Jazz music?

I wish I liked jazz music but I don't. It just seems like something - Like certain kinds of country music that I like - I feel like jazz music comes from a similar place - but it's like the fifties - it's just too much for me.

Moby?

I don't like Moby. His face is annoying and his face became a part of - he was all of a sudden in commercials and whatever. His bald head annoys me.

M: Reggae?

I hate it. I hate it and respect it - like Jamaica and stuff. My cat likes reggae and it's killing me.

World music in general?

NO interest. I can't relate.

Why do you think you relate to rock music, then?

It's American - it's British - I feel a large part of the world that we live in - the upper world - I remember watching a Michael Jackson thing on TV and I saw these kids in Germany and stuff - and asked my mom why they liked his music if they couldn't understand what he was saying. My mom said that every one likes Michael Jackson and American pop music. It's all about money. They might not like it - but they're subjected to it whether they like it or not.

What do you think makes Michael Jackson so good?

Back then he was good - but then he got weird. Producers make him good, first of all. But if you listen to thriller - All those weird sounds and all - Michael Jackson's downfall…

Do you have a problem with people who like Justin Timberlake but don't, say, like Michael Jackson or James Brown or other old things?

I had an argument recently with someone who likes Drum and Bass - and I was like - that music's great but it comes from a certain place - disco and dance music - with a different music. He said - no - that had nothing to do with it - and I said of course it did.

Is there a problem with people who like a specific kind of music but don't appreciate the roots of that specific music?

They're just different in my mind - they're people who don't have an open mind they're people who don't have as much interest in music as I do - they're probably not going to be my best friends. (laughter) Justin Timberlake - god - like Michael Jackson much? And from working in the record store - fifty fifty - I mean - Franz Ferdinand - it's a new band and I really like their cd. It's a little old now - but everyone was buying that cd. It was even on the radio.

Do you think there's a problem when there's too much exposure?

Yea cause the band is under all sorts of pressure and if they can't bring it then you'll never hear of them again. But in Europe you can listen to the radio - like with John Peel and stuff - In Europe they have the record labels but there are limits but you can hear anything on the radio. Here, though, with Clear Channel owning anything - it's really freaky and you can't trust anything here. But in Europe - I can only say England for sure - but radio is big and press and publicity are big - if you get good press there then things will be ok and people listen to the radio and respect it.

What do you think of our music journals? Like Skyscraper…Anthem…

Stuff like that can be respected - but critics in general are hard. I would so much rather have a good radio station with diverse shows and public access type of stations - then write ups by someone that could make or break a band based on the opinion of a critic. Like - they met the band in a bar and they were rude to them so the critic decides that they're going to crush them… It's hard to trust [critics] because it's so individual and driven by things and events and liking the music.

But if you're a radio show you're not a personality writing an article - you're a person playing music and it's not about you you're playing someone else's music you're performing but only to the extent that you want to do a good job you're not promoting yourself as a person

So a perfect journal might be…

It would be one that - see these things are tough because - on the one hand I think that the Rapture ripped off a lot of stuff but they didn't cite any influences - but what do I know. I've never tried to write music - I don't play music so - I feel like critics shoot their mouths off too much - they like to live the life - like B.B. King died going to shows - but if you're just writing then you're just living the life you don't understand what's going on in their head.

Most musical fans aren't musicians though

But if you're a critic you really have to watch yourself - then for art critics too..

Yeah - most art critics and historians are just frustrated artists -

Yeah - exactly - they can't do it - they have no idea what it takes. So that's one thing - a general respect for music is very important in being a critic because a critic will - the best reviews that I get - are people who tell me that they like one thing, that I did it really well but can point out something else - they can analyze all aspects of something - find differences - that's a big help. Rather than just bashing something. That's just trying to make someone feel bad. But constructive criticism is pointing these out in a positive way. It's unfortunate that bands get bad reviews - well - if they're really bad - but I don't know. A good band can get a bad review -

[the song "I know what boys like" comes on and Allison points out that it's the Waitresses]

Are there specific times when you actively don't listen to music?

When I'm on the phone I can't concentrate if I'm listening to music - I just get distracted. When I studied I listened to music really loud. When Eric and I started dating he pointed out that I didn't own any quiet music - and I didn't. I think the only quiet album I had was the Beach Boys' Pet Sounds. Music always suits your mood. If I'm in a bad mood I'll try to listen to something uplifting. It's really cheesy to say that when you're sad you only listen to saaad music. I try to get myself out of a bad mood by listening to up beat music. I definitely don't listen to sad music at all. I think the Beach Boys are really sad though - especially after I read Brian Wilson's autobiography.

So you read about musicians too?

It's the only kind of books that I really like - and mysteries. It's pretty much all I read. Mostly music autobiographies. I don't really read biographies - usually they don't get the story right or it's not authorized by the person and then I don't really want to read it. The Rolling Stones book is the only one that I did read - it was unauthorized. It went into Brian Jones' death - there's a whole conspiracy theory behind that. That was great - I love anything with any sort of scandal especially in the sixties and seventies.

Do you think that history around a band is influential to your continued like for a band?

If I know more about the songs sometimes it's bad and sometimes it's good. I definitely think about Marianne Faithful when I listen to the Rolling Stones now after reading her autobiography.

A lot of people stopped liking Led Zeppelin after reading about all of their exploits -

I think anything they did is awesome. Womanizing…whatever. I don't care. (laughter)

Would you say that the kind of music you listen to is oriented towards men or women?

Definitely men. Maybe everybody.

Do you think that there's a difference in the way that men and women listen to music?

Yes. For the most part girls listen to sad music - It's a great divide. I can't imagine being a female singer - you'd get so much shit for it. I don't really like female singers because they harp on being female. They're on the right track if they don't play up their minority complex. Girls I think in general make pussy rock. Emotional songs about their boyfriends - songs that they can listen to while they're thinking about their boyfriends.

Do you think it's possible to be a girl and like both what we've called girl music and boy music?

Definitely - but I think girls like that are different kinds of girls.

If you were going to make a band -

Cock Rock but without the cock. The whole idea would be that we would be girls without emphasizing the fact that we were girls. The downfall of female musicians is that they emphasize the fact that they're girls. But the Riot Grrrls take it to a whole different level.

They're sad…Bikini Kill is so awful. They're just not good. If they made good music - like Highway to Hell - like AC/DC. We'd have a hot male vocalist [we get distracted by radio] but have people not know that the girls were the musicians and not be the focus but just play the instruments well. It'd almost be a gimmick but -

What about the White Stripes

[Meg White] is a drummer but she could be a better drummer. Of course she gets a lot of crap for being a girl and for being a better drummer but, no, I think it's great. We'd want an all girl band with a male vocalist - like Kim Gordon and Sonic Youth - but, no, maybe Heart - and Fleetwood Mac - but the girls always sing.

[we have an argument about Heart and the Pretenders]

But - still - I want to see all girl band that doesn't play up the fact that they're women - like Le Tigre. I want to see all girls on instruments and put the male vocalist in the position that the girl has been put in forever: As the hot sex symbol.
Girls are never put in the other position. That would be a dream come true.

What about Le Tigre?

They emphasize the woman thing too much - and with their audience. It's the same thing with comics - if you emphasize that you're a girl in comics no one's gonna buy your shit. I don't want to emphasize the fact that I'm a girl. We've moved on - the new feminism is different from that -we emphasize that we're equal. We're just equal. Unless we start treating ourselves like we're men we're never going to be treated like men. Then we'll start getting the privileges.

I know Le Tigre uses their music for politics - do you think that's useful?

I think it's bad. Maybe it's ok to play a benefit concert - but you don't want to alienate people - I mean some idiot in Texas might [not agree], I mean - you can play a benefit for John Kerry or something - obviously you're going to have a political side but emphasize the music.

Le Tigre plays slides during their shows…they're alienating people from the band. I don't know - I just don't think it's a good idea. Politics in general are a touchy subject. I have very strong opinions about politics and I probably agree with that band but the music should be the emphasis.

We talked about changing the roles - sex roles - do you think there are other ways that we can improve the face of music?

People have got to educate themselves with like stuff from the seventies. I love the eighties and the seventies.

We're going to end it where we began. Top five desert island recording artists:

Oh my god…there's so much pressure - make sure the Supremes are on there - The Supremes, the Beatles, the Ramones, the Rolling Stones…I can't - I said Wire before but I'm taking it back because - top five ever - that's so hard…um. Maybe I could get rid of the Ramones and the Supremes - I don't know - it's too much - that's my conclusion. I can't name just five.